Author: Uri Blass
Date: 01:39:29 10/29/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 29, 2001 at 01:35:43, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >On October 28, 2001 at 18:43:19, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 28, 2001 at 18:06:34, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >> >>>[D]r1b1r1k1/5pbp/p1pQ1np1/q3n3/2pBP3/2N2P2/PP4PP/1KNR1B1R w - - 0 15 >>> >>>Sjeng played b4, which loses. How long to avoid it, and how long >>>to see it loses? >> >>Junior7 needs 2 seconds(224 knodes on p200) >>It does not see that b4 is losing in order to avoid it but it can see that >>Bxe5 is better. > >I want to know both times (avoid and see that it loses). > >-- >GCP I do not understand exactly the second question programs do not have a score for the next best move I supposed that you meant that program should first see that it is losing and after it find a better move but they do not work in that way. It is also not clear what score is meant to see that b4 is losing. Programs with evaluation that is not symmetric may see that white is losing when they play white and not see it when they play with black. It seems that at least it can happen to Crafty necause it is using anti symmetric evaluation. The score of Crafty at depth 8 for b4 is 0.67 for white when the scores after b4 at depthes 7,8 are more than +2 for white(see the analysis in the end of this post). Here is Junior7's analysis after b4 on p800 Sjeng - Fritz r1b1r1k1/5pbp/p1pQ1np1/q3n3/1PpBP3/2N2P2/P5PP/1KNR1B1R b - b3 0 1 Analysis by Junior 7: 15...Qxb4+ 16.Qxb4 a5 17.Qd6 +- (5.12) Depth: 3 00:00:00 15...Qd8 16.Bxe5 Qxd6 17.Bxd6 ± (1.11) Depth: 3 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 ² (0.36) Depth: 3 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Nf6+ Kh8 19.Qxc6 Qxb4+ = (0.24) Depth: 6 00:00:00 5kN 15...Qa3! = (-0.06) Depth: 9 00:00:00 107kN 15...Qa3! 16.N3e2 c5 17.Bxe5 Qxb4+ 18.Kc2 Nxe4 19.fxe4 Bxe5 µ (-0.71) Depth: 9 00:00:00 342kN 15...Qa3 16.f4 Bg4 17.Bxe5 Bxd1 18.Qxd1 Rad8 19.Qa4 Qxa4 20.Nxa4 Rd1 µ (-0.76) Depth: 12 00:00:04 2787kN 15...Qa3! µ (-1.06) Depth: 14 00:00:24 15743kN 15...Qa3! µ (-1.36) Depth: 15 00:01:36 64553kN 15...Qa3 16.Qc5 Rb8 17.b5 Qxc5 18.Bxc5 cxb5 19.h4 Bd7 20.Be2 b4 21.Nd5 Nxd5 µ (-1.35) Depth: 16 00:05:09 190264kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 29.10.2001) here is Deep Fritz's analysis after b4 Sjeng - Fritz r1b1r1k1/5pbp/p1pQ1np1/q3n3/1PpBP3/2N2P2/P5PP/1KNR1B1R b - b3 0 1 Analysis by Deep Fritz: 15...Nxe4-- ± (1.28) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00 2kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 ± (1.16) Depth: 5/26 00:00:00 17kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 ± (1.03) Depth: 6/23 00:00:00 41kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 Rb8 ± (0.81) Depth: 7/28 00:00:00 155kN 15...Qa3! ² (0.50) Depth: 8/26 00:00:00 324kN 15...Qa3! 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Ka1 ² (0.28) Depth: 8/32 00:00:00 467kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Nb3 ² (0.28) Depth: 9/33 00:00:02 1409kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Qb3 c5 = (0.03) Depth: 10/35 00:00:05 3717kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Qb3 c5 21.Bc4 = (0.22) Depth: 11/36 00:00:15 9766kN 15...Qa3! = (-0.09) Depth: 12/39 00:00:54 34731kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 Be6 19.f4 Rad8 20.Bd3 c3 = (-0.19) Depth: 13/39 00:02:42 106226kN 15...Qa3! ³ (-0.50) Depth: 14/42 00:06:59 266702kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 29.10.2001) Crafty's analysis: Sjeng - Fritz r1b1r1k1/5pbp/p1pQ1np1/q3n3/1PpBP3/2N2P2/P5PP/1KNR1B1R b - b3 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.12: 15...cxb3 16.axb3 ² (0.56) Depth: 1/14 00:00:00 15...cxb3 16.Nxb3 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 +- (3.65) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 15...cxb3 16.Nxb3 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 +- (3.65) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00 15...cxb3 16.Nxb3 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Qd8 +- (3.65) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 +- (3.52) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 +- (3.52) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 +- (3.12) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 77kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qc5 +- (3.04) Depth: 6/20 00:00:00 113kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qc5 +- (2.64) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 245kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 +- (2.48) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 367kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 18.Qxc6 Bg4 19.Be2 Bxc3 20.Bxg4 Qxb4+ +- (2.14) Depth: 8/20 00:00:03 823kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 18.Qxc6 Bg4 19.Be2 Bxc3 20.Bxg4 Qxb4+ +- (1.74) Depth: 9/21 00:00:06 2063kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Nb3 ± (1.09) Depth: 9/21 00:00:10 3533kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Nb3 ² (0.69) Depth: 10/26 00:00:20 7375kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Nb3 Rb8 ² (0.30) Depth: 10/26 00:00:35 13202kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qe2 Qxb4+ 20.Nb3 Bf5 21.Qc2 ± (0.83) Depth: 11/28 00:01:04 24784kN 15...Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 19.Qc2 Qxb4+ 20.Qb3 Qa5 21.Bc4 Ra7 ± (0.72) Depth: 12/32 00:01:58 46932kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 29.10.2001) Sjeng - Fritz r1b1r1k1/5pbp/p1pQ1np1/q3n3/2pBP3/2N2P2/PP4PP/1KNR1B1R w - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.12: 15.Bxe5 Rxe5 16.Bxc4 = (0.11) Depth: 1/14 00:00:00 15.Bxe5 Rxe5 16.Bxc4 = (0.11) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 15.Qc5 Qc7 16.Bxc4 Nxc4 17.Qxc4 ² (0.26) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 15.Qc5 Qxc5 16.Bxc5 Rb8 = (0.19) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00 15.Bxe5 ² (0.66) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00 15.Bxe5 Rxe5 16.Qd8+ Ne8 17.Qxa5 Rxa5 18.Bxc4 ± (0.96) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00 15.b4 cxb3 16.Nxb3 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 +- (1.82) Depth: 3/14 00:00:00 15.b4 cxb3 16.Nxb3 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 +- (1.82) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 15.b4 Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 +- (1.80) Depth: 5/14 00:00:00 15.b4 Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.fxe4 Bxe5 +- (1.80) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 57kN 15.b4 Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qc5 ± (1.32) Depth: 7/18 00:00:01 160kN 15.b4 Qa3 16.Bxe5 Nxe4 17.Nxe4 Bxe5 18.Qd2 c3 ² (0.67) Depth: 8/20 00:00:02 450kN 15.Bxe5 Rxe5 16.Qd8+ Ne8 17.Qxa5 Rxa5 18.Rd8 Kf8 19.Bxc4 Rb8 20.Kc2 ± (0.95) Depth: 8/20 00:00:02 825kN 15.Bxe5 Rxe5 16.Bxc4 Nd7 17.Qxc6 Rb8 18.Nb3 Qd8 19.Bxa6 Re6 ± (0.91) Depth: 9/22 00:00:07 2710kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 29.10.2001) Uri
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