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Subject: Re: Explosion in WAC 102

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 10:10:32 01/15/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 14, 2002 at 20:14:26, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On January 12, 2002 at 12:42:19, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On January 11, 2002 at 14:27:47, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On January 11, 2002 at 13:00:46, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 11, 2002 at 12:47:29, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 11, 2002 at 12:40:03, Matthias Gemuh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 11, 2002 at 11:44:39, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D]2Q2n2/2R4p/1p1qpp1k/8/3P3P/3B2P1/5PK1/r7 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the above position, my search tree explodes because of extensions. It takes >
>>>>>>>3 minutes and 42 million nodes to finish an 8 ply search. How does your program
>>>>>>>do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any good ideas on how to limit extensions in such a position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>P.S. Solving the position is no problem. It is a simple mate in 5 plies, and is
>>>>>>>found very early on at depth 1 or 2 or so. Still, there must be something
>>>>>>>unsound about my extensions, or at least room for improvement, when this
>>>>>>>position makes the tree explode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>/David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My HyLogicChess has the following stats:
>>>>>>All extensions active.
>>>>>>Quiescence moves: 29% (no explosion, my average is normally have 40%)
>>>>>>Total moves searched: 11000
>>>>>>Speed; 84 kN/s
>>>>>>Move Ordering: 78% (normally 90%..92%)
>>>>>>[1] (0.18)  1.f3 (00h:00m:00s)
>>>>>>[2] (0.12)  1.Qb7 e5 (00h:00m:00s)
>>>>>>[3] (14.50)  1.Qxf8 Kh5 2.Rxh7 Kg4 3.Qxd6 (00h:00m:00s)
>>>>>>[4] (+Mate in 3)  1.Qxf8 Kh5 2.Rxh7 Kg4 3.f3 (00h:00m:00s)
>>>>>
>>>>>My program performs similarly if only searching to ply 4, but try letting it
>>>>>search to ply 9, even though it has already found the mate. That is what I am
>>>>>talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>>/David
>>>>
>>>>Gaviota's output:
>>>>
>>>>setboard 2Q2n2/2R4p/1p1qpp1k/8/3P3P/3B2P1/5PK1/r7 w - - 0 1
>>>>d
>>>>+-----------------+
>>>>| . . Q . . n . . |
>>>>| . . R . . . . x |
>>>>| . x . q x x . k |
>>>>| . . . . . . . . |
>>>>| . . . o . . . o |
>>>>| . . . B . . o . |
>>>>| . . . . . o K . |
>>>>| r . . . . . . . |
>>>>+-----------------+
>>>>
>>>>sd 9
>>>>go
>>>>       104   1:      0.0   +30.78  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8xd6
>>>>       392   2:      0.0   +30.78  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   <EMPTY>
>>>>                                   <-transp
>>>>       455   3       0.0      :-)  Qc8xf8
>>>>       530   3       0.0      :-)  Qc8xf8
>>>>       565   3       0.0      :-)  Qc8xf8
>>>>      1637   3       0.0      :-)  Qc8xf8
>>>>      3104   3:      0.0   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>      4023   4       0.1   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>      4475   4:      0.1   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>      5444   5       0.1   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>      8853   5:      0.1   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>     11891   6       0.1   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>     18148   6:      0.2   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>     24692   7       0.2   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>     48189   7:      0.4   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>     62166   8       0.6   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>    152926   8:      1.5   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>    172449   9       1.6   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>    262305   9:      2.3   +Mat_3  Qc8xf8   Kh6-h5   Rc7xh7   Kh5-g4
>>>>                                   Qf8-g8
>>>>
>>>>Ply: 9
>>>>Qc8xf8  Kh6-h5  Rc7xh7  Kh5-g4  Qf8-g8
>>>>Score: 125.37 (32094)  Evals: 90689   Time: 2.3s   nps: 115400  Q/all: 0.36
>>>>           nodes      cutoffs       missed     tree_exp
>>>>path      168830        26576          823         1.03
>>>>quies      93475        31592         1083         1.03
>>>>all       262305        58168         1906         1.03
>>>>hashtable=  attempts: 284553   hits: 35.3%   perfect: 23.2%
>>>>move c8f8
>>>
>>>For a mate in 3, it does not make any sense to search past ply 5 if you already
>>>see it.  After all, when you have searched ply 5 and have a mate in 3, you
>>>cannot possibly improve it.
>>
>>Yes you can. Nullmove and pruning can take care of hiding a short mate until
>>deeper searchdepth.
>>
>>The safe assumption is that when you have a mate in 5 ply and you're deeper than
>>4 ply in the search you can cut off since it will not improve the score.
>
>That's the same thing I said.

Yes you did. I read in another thread that someone thought you don't have to
search more than 5 ply from the root, and thought you meant the same.

Sorry,

Tony



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