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Subject: Re: I have a vision

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 03:17:17 05/21/02

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On May 20, 2002 at 20:00:21, Albert Silver wrote:

>>>In 20 years, the hardware is only 350 MHz (software writers are running short of
>>>ideas to continue improving software that exploits the ever DECREASING hardware
>>>limits) and the machines must be custom made since no one really makes such
>>>absurdly slow processors anymore. Even the latest Casio wristwatch goes faster
>>>than that! BUT, we can STILL beat the machines. Ah!...
>>>
>>>Looks and sounds terribly silly doesn't it? That's where it would lead to. If
>>>you limit the hardware to not allow a performance beyond a certain point, what
>>>exactly are you achieving?
>>>
>>>                                           Albert
>>
>>What I achieve is an improvement in the software and an interesting competition.
>
>First of all, software improvements will happen independently of handicapping or
>not the hardware. Second of all, machines don't compete, they perform. I've been
>using this example up and down this thread and I'll reiterate it here: if you
>race a motorcycle, you may be competing against the bike, but the motorcycle is
>certainly not *competing* agaist you.

I don't understand your reason for not wanting to call it a competition.
It is a competition between the brute force method of computers and the chess
understanding of humans.

If you allow the programs to use a very large book, a book mind you that
contains lines founded by the greates human chessplayers in history, it is _not_
the computer playing those moves. The computer hasn't "found" these move but are
merely playing from a book, even a child of 8 could play a solid opening against
Kasparov if you gave him a book.
This ruins the race in a sense, because which ever humans playes the computer is
actually playing against the greates grand masters of history, and not against
the brute force algorithms of a chess program.
This means the "competition" is not pure in the sense it was meant to.

However, I know all the counter arguments; humans memorize too, computers are
just better at it.
The whole discussion about why computers shouldn't be allowed to utilize their
huge memory, when this _is_ one of their biggest forces is just absurd.
What does it mean to write a program, you didn't build the computer, you didn't
write the compiler, you are including a lot of libraries you also didn't write,
the algorithms you use you didn't invent. What _is_ a program, really, when is
it _your_ program playing, etc... (Bob may remember he and I had a lengthy
discussion about this some time ago in r.g.c.c.).

All I can say is, that if you take a program "written by" person X, and let it
use a book written by person Y (and a whole bunch of GMs), it is not IMHO, the
program playing the opening moves, the program has nothing more to do with those
moves than anyone else looking up a move in a book. So is it the program playing
or is it not, I say _not_ (in this case), but I admit the issue is rather
complex/boring, espicially for programs like Crafty that will do a search and do
statistics and book learning on the opening moves...

-S.



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