Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: List is NOT a Crafty clone, ... etc

Author: Andrew Williams

Date: 05:55:58 08/22/04

Go up one level in this thread


On August 22, 2004 at 08:19:09, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On August 22, 2004 at 06:33:35, Andrew Williams wrote:
>
>>On August 21, 2004 at 20:42:17, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>On August 21, 2004 at 16:14:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 21, 2004 at 15:48:11, Graham Banks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?
>>>>
>>>>Yes but in the case of List the suspect is stronger than some baseless
>>>>accusation because the ICGA decided to ban list.
>>>>
>>>>I expect that innocent person in this situation will do some steps to defend
>>>>himself and Fritz did nothing.
>>>>
>>>>If some newspaper claim bad things about you and you do nothing against the
>>>>newspaper then it is natural that people believe the newspaper inspite of the
>>>>fact that there is no proof excpet the fact that it was written in the
>>>>newspaper.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>I hope you are not picked as a juror with your preconceived notions of innocence
>>>and guilt based on behavior patterns.  The "requirement" to defend if you are
>>>innocent is degrading and I can understand perfectly well why he elected not to
>>>defend.  It has no relevancy on his guilt or innocence.    Also,If you believe
>>>everything you read in a newspaper that is not refuted is true, not all your
>>>beliefs will be true.  It will serve you well to always carry around healthy
>>>dose of professional skepicism.   Btw, we're talking about a program that plays
>>>a "game" -- in the big picture it may be that important to Reul to defend.
>>
>>Fritz Reul entered the WCCC. The rules of the WCCC state that if the tournament
>>director requests it, the participant must provide a copy of his source-code for
>>inspection. There's not "innocent until proven guilty" here; this was a
>>competition with its own set of rules. He had the opportunity to prove his
>>innocence, per the rules, and decided not to do so. This doesn't make him guilty
>>of copying crafty, but it does make him guilty of breaking the rules, for which
>>he was disqualified.
>>
>>I feel the same about this case as I do about cases where athletes avoid drug
>>tests. Under law they are entitled to be assumed innocent of taking drugs (which
>>may or may not be illegal outside of the competition) until proven guilty. Under
>>the rules of the competition, they must submit themselves for drug testing. If
>>they want to refuse to submit themselves for drug testing, they shouldn't enter
>>the competition.
>>
>>I understand that the cases are not identical because in the WCCC rules, the TD
>>has to have some reason to believe that a program is a clone of another (in
>>atheletics it's just random). But I'm inclined to believe the TD in this
>>instance. I can't imagine Jaap v.d. Herik suddenly getting up on his hind legs
>>and accusing someone of something this serious without a VERY good reason. I
>>have the advantage of you, I presume, because I have met him a couple of times.
>>
>>Andrew
>
>
>Fine, if you know him so well. I doubt that you can say anything at all about
>the LIST affair. But I can certainly ask you a question: would you think that
>Jaap would also ask Fritz or Shredder for their source code if Vincent claimed
>that they were partly Crafty clones? Would you really think that Jaap would want
>to hurt his own sponsor? Now show me how good you know him. I met him twice BTW.

What makes you so sure it was Vincent who made the complaint? I was told that it
 was not him. But that is hearsay. As to your question about Fritz and Shredder,
I don't know. I was talking about this specific case, where I believe Jaap acted
correctly.

I'm off on holiday in a couple of hours, so I won't be able to respond for the
next week or so.

Andrew




This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.