Author: Ren Wu
Date: 00:14:34 01/26/99
Go up one level in this thread
On January 26, 1999 at 01:24:11, James Long wrote: >I believe this can be true, but it doesn't have to be. >If you were tasked with designing a new automobile, would you rather >start from scratch, or to expand on/modify an existing design? >Would you reinvent the wheel? :-) Well, that's the point. :) I certainly don't want to read any automobile's detailed instruction if i have to design one myself. High level descrition is much much more useful here. And I bet if Foyota release such detailed instuction, Tord will be most interested in such things. :) >Programmers reuse code everyday. The Microsoft Foundation Classes >are a prime example. Does it kill creativity to use a function >stored in some library another programmer wrote? Maybe, but >what if that bit of code isn't what you're interested in anyway? How many people learn MFC by looking the MFC source without read some introduction book? And how many windows programmers starting directly from MFC can write any windows programm without MFC? And if you done programming Windows at api level, you know if MFC kill one's creativity. Do you think that a beginner can learn more from MFC's source than a good introduction book? In fact, most new programmer have quite big problems when they want to break MFC's doc/view system and its default behave. And that's MFC, where the default stuff is almost allright. In chess, there is no default way to do things. >>I believe that is also the case of crafty, a new chess programmer will get >>bounded by crafty's source code. Few can ever breakup from it, and having their >>own ideas. > >How do you know this? From what I've read, this is not your >experience, and it's not mine. (I've had a multitude of failed >ideas to be found nowhere in Crafty. :-)) Have other programmers >told you they could not "break from Crafty?" Sorry, this is just my speculation. And maybe i am wrong here. Time will tell. And remember i wrote my program long before I get first look at crafty's source. And you also look the source after you already done your first one. >Possibly. You make a strong point, and I really want to understand >your position. The philosophy behind open source is that the end >result of a collabrative effort will be superior to any individual >effort. Dr Hyatt stated in another post that he himself has based >at least some of his code on the work of others. Am I to believe >that as a result he has done nothing "creative?" I probably should say that I mean in general >I think it is possible to view another's source, learn from it, >and continue the creative process. Some degree of discipline is >involved. It is not so different from reading a technical report >and implementing the theory. Yes, I agree that one can learn either from a paper or from source code. What i mean is that one can get the idea a lot faster from a paper than from the source code. That is why we have technical report. Source code is not the proper format to present ideas. it is proper tool to present *details*. >In some ways, your program is >still based on the works of others. Maybe this is a hard pill >to swallow for those that want to claim sole ownership, but >it's true. I never said that every idea in my program is mine, even my first chinese chess program i use Winston's lisp code about alphabeta as the start point. I borrow a lot of ideas from a lot of people. However, I do write every single line of my program. And I am proud of it. >> >>And don't think that my program is weak too. It (my chess porgram) had neck to >>neck performance compared with any top pc program back to 2 years ago. My >>chinese chess program has been the world strongest for quite a long time. > > >Obviously you have been quite successful, so there must be >some merit in what you say. The idea of open source is something >I've wrestled with for a while now, but my stance, at least for >now, is that open source promotes development, despite its >shortcomings. I agree what you said. But I think Bob will do much better to help computer chess commmunity if he really start to write a introduction book with the source code of a a working but somewhat simeple program. Ren.
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