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Subject: Re: What constitutes a clone?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:06:27 02/16/05

Go up one level in this thread


On February 16, 2005 at 01:39:47, Mridul Muralidharan wrote:

>On February 15, 2005 at 21:08:08, Andrew Wagner wrote:
>
>>On February 15, 2005 at 18:38:43, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not trying to start a brutally long thread here, but I'm just curious about
>>>how people feel about a particularly touchy subject -- clones. What, in your
>>>mind, would lead you to the conclusion that an engine is a clone?
>>>
>>>Let's forget trying to find ways to PROVE that a clone is a clone; I'm just
>>>trying to define one. For the sake of argument, assume that the author of this
>>>engine in question tells you exactly what he did and did not do, and you must
>>>decide whether to call it a clone or not.
>>>
>>>Here are some hypothetical questions to start the debate:
>>>
>>>If the author took Crafty and completely rewrote the evaluation code and nothing
>>>else, would it be a clone?
>>>
>>>How about if the author rewrote the evaluation code and search algorithm only,
>>>but left the hashing code, et. al.?
>>>
>>>How about if the author rewrote everything EXCEPT for the evaluation?
>>>
>>>How about if the author rewrote everything EXCEPT for Crafty's evaluation of
>>>passed pawns?
>>>
>>>I think you can see where I'm driving.
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>To add a completely useless illustration, this reminds me of an age-old riddle.
>>A bald man is someone who has no hair. What about the person with one hair?
>>Well, ok, for all intents and purposes, he's bald too. What about the guy with
>>two hairs? You gotta admit, we would consider him bald, too. And you can keep
>>going on like this. Where's the line?
>>
>>As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you can't "steal" a line like 'int
>>i;'. That's just standard coding practice. But I think if there's some concept
>>that an engine uses uniquely, that you use without giving credit, that's a
>>violation of the GNU licensing agreement. I don't know that you can call the
>>whole engine a clone, but that part of it is certainly inappropriate.
>
>Good point - and I like the analogy :)
>In computer chess especially , there are hardly any "secrets" - yes there are
>tuning params , variations of move ordering , pruning , etc - but all techniques
>are "known" (well , commercials might have something "interesting" ;) )

Your assumption is wrong.
amateurs also may have secrets.

The fact that they are weaker does not mean that they do not use productive
ideas that are not known because a program may be weaker because of other
reasons like not tuning params.

Uri



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