Author: Uri Blass
Date: 06:55:40 09/06/05
Go up one level in this thread
On September 06, 2005 at 09:45:46, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 06, 2005 at 09:24:32, A. Cozzie wrote: > >>On September 06, 2005 at 02:22:48, Shaley wrote: >> >>>On September 06, 2005 at 01:39:14, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>I like to help the new programmers buying their product to let them get some >>>>money for their hard work. I have been doing this since many years and >>>>suggesting other people to do it to. >>>>I wrote on several chess magazine in Italy articles on chess programs for years >>>>and still several people do call me still asking suggestions and so on. >>>> >>>>I was planning to buy Zappa and to help his young programmer I have given some >>>>suggestion to help him selling more, but I got offended by GC Pascutto, the >>>>programmer of D. Sjeng and a heavy post from Vincent. >>>> >>>>So, I have decided not to buy Zappa, D. Sjeng and the pocket from Vincent >>>>anymore under any circontances. >>>> >>>>I think the respect obout other people and their opinions, suggestions and >>>>education are extremely important. >>>>Respect does not mean to do these things, but it is not acceptable to reply >>>>offending them or similar things. >>>> >>>>If education or respect do not exist, their products do not either to me. >>>> >>>>Sandro >>> >>>Hello Sandro, >>> >>>I think you're going to extremes now. People who post in forums over here or >>>elsewhere do not always keep calm and rather express very provocative >>>statements. I've come across the same situation on the Russian offline chess >>>forums. And I've gradually come to the conclusion that while posting some >>>non-neutral or even hurting viewpoints we try to look highbrow very often >>>without any weighty grounds. I also think that after that huge success Zappa had >>>at WCCC they might just think they can rule the game in computer chess >>>community. However, I don't think it's the case. Zappa is a very good programme >>>but it's still not the master of the ring. And the recent match between Hiarcs >>>and Zappa showed it very clearly. There's been too much fuss about Zappa over >>>here recently without any good reasons, just because of its nice play at WCCC. >>>Besides, as a man in a Shredder team you shouldn't support the rivals, should >>>you? And Shredder is still the SSDF leader and will surely be the leader for >>>many months to come. I cannot push you anyway, but if you want to support some >>>outside programmers you should support Mark Uniacke and his Hiarcs 10 to be >>>released soon. In my opinion, there're only two best programmes to date: >>>Shredder and Hiarcs. Only time can show if Zappa will become another one. >>>Best regards, >>>Alexander >> >>All of CCC needs to realize something: the number of people on the planet who >>are seriously interested in engine-engine play is perhaps 1000. When you sell >>something, you want to target a large group of people. I'd rather try to sell >>Zappa to 'people who like to play chess', and have features for them, than >>'computer chess afficiandos' who like to run engine matches for days on end, >>simply because there are *way more* of the former. If I can sell a copy of Zapa >>to 0.01% of the former I will make more money than selling to 90% of the latter. >> >>These people don't know or care what the letters UCI stand for. The want more >>chess features, better weakened versions of the engines, better analysis, chess >>courses, and such, not a stronger engine. Zappa's main contributions to Diep3D >>are publicity and the simple fact that Vincent can write World Champion on the >>box, which will improve his sales quite a bit IMO, because people like to buy >>the best just out of habit. >> >>This is something of a bitter pill for the CCC crowd, but that is the way the >>cookie crumbles. To make matters worse, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts >>that Fritz9 is less than 5 elo stronger than Fritz8 when played against >>Shredder. This is because Chessbase also wants to target 'people who like to >>play chess' and not CCC. For better or for worse, smaller groups just don't get >>what they want as much, whether its tennis doubles players, libertarians, or >>computer chess fans. >> >>I would of course still like all of you to buy a copy of Zappa :) But if you >>feel that it won't meet your needs because it doesn't support X protocol, or the >>GUI doesn't look the way you want it to look, then it is your money and you are >>free to spend it elsewhere. I think in general Vincent is going to try to pack >>as much into his interface as possible, so perhaps a 'wait and see' strategy >>might work out best for some of you. And if you want to state that you won't >>buy the program, that is fine, but can you do it without appending the 'and the >>programmer is an idiot!' ? I don't expect you to like that decision, but I'd >>rather that you expressed your dislike with a minimum of vitriol. >> >>Secondly, something that is REALLY pissing me off. It is starting to appear to >>me that people are associating anything on Zappa as coming from me. I only >>write stuff that comes with the tag 'A. Cozzie'. I'm not the one who is calling >>Zappa the second coming. As I have stated before, I think Zappa can hang with >>any engine out there: Fruit, Hiarcs, Shredder, Junior, whatever. > >In this case why you do not send Leo a copy to see how it does against Shredder >and Fruit? > > > I agree it >>lost vs Hiarcs, but lets not forget: random book and 10 games. I beat Toga in a >>10 game match and no one was proclaiming it was dead :) And I should probably >>mention: Erdo was toying with a whole bunch of different settings during his >>time on playchess. He was more beta-testing for Zappa than trying to prove its >>strength. >> >>Lastly, my personal opinion is: ultimately only tournaments count. At a >>tournament you show up with your best. > >I think that WBEC is more important tournament than WCCC. >Why not show up with your best zappa there? > >You do not need to release Zappa that support winboard but only send Leo a >version of Zappa that support this protocol. > > > Your special settings. Your best >>tournament lines. Your best hardware. > >Why should customers care about your best tournament lines and your best >hardware when they will not going to have it. > >I see no reason that they should care about preperation of specific anti-fruit >lines and anti-Junior lines and anti-shredder lines that you may have in your >secret book only for a single game. > >Uri Note that I am not saying that you cannot use the fact that Zappa won WCCC to increase sales but if you want more buyers then I think that it is better if you do not escape tournaments with equal hardware. Note that you can upgrade Zappa1.1 in WBEC in the first 3 rounds and I hope that you will do it. When I say that WBEC is more important than WCCC then I mean from my point of view. Most of the customers may have different opinion but you should care also about the minority if you want to increase sales. Uri
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