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Subject: Re: Attention - Slater Wold

Author: Keith Evans

Date: 10:58:28 04/11/03

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On April 11, 2003 at 08:59:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On April 10, 2003 at 13:54:21, Keith Evans wrote:
>
>>On April 10, 2003 at 13:38:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On April 10, 2003 at 12:30:16, Keith Evans wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 10, 2003 at 08:07:22, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 21:02:18, Keith Evans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Some points:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1 - SDRAM (or whatever) is way cheaper than Xilinx parts. If you cared about
>>>>>>this, you could either offer it as an upgrade option, or let people upgrade
>>>>>>themselves. (The standard practice would be to require a special DIMM so you
>>>>>>could charge extra.)
>>>>>
>>>>>DDR ram is not too slow, but the problem is to interface to it in a cheap way.
>>>>>how are you going to do that? Every interface eats money to license it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Further we do not speak about ASIC here but FPGA. How to interface memory
>>>>>cheaply to FPGA?
>>>>
>>>>Are you worried about IP core licensing fees? It's not difficult to build a
>>>>memory controller. You can even download some app notes from the Xilinx webpage,
>>>>but be prepared to fix bugs if you use those.
>>>>
>>>>We built a digital data recorder (40 mbit/s stream) using a Xilinx SDRAM app
>>>>note as a basis and it worked out fine in an older Virtex part.
>>>>
>>>>I've found that for simple interfaces it's usually easier to do it yourself than
>>>>to license IP cores. I did a lot of work with video RAM early in my career
>>>>(which wass just old async DRAM + shift register), so I know how to read memory
>>>>datasheets.
>>>
>>>needed here is something that gets memory at 6 million times a second and like
>>>32 bytes of it at least.
>>>
>>>Further you need to lookup based upon some value that is in the hardware.
>>>
>>>latency may only be 1 processor clocks (from the fpga) or so to keep it real
>>>interesting. and in case of entire search in fpga like 10 processor clocks at
>>>most.
>>>
>>>then at 6 million nps you fill of course that memory quick. So it has to be at
>>>least 128MB memory or so.
>>>
>>>For what price can you add that to the package?
>>>
>>>price matters. only price matters, remember. these guys do not write such stuff
>>>only for their pleasure.
>>>
>>>>Keith
>>
>>I might just use ordinary SDRAM and clock it at a multiple of the engine clock.
>>Let's guess that the engine will be running at 25 MHz max. So old SDRAM could be
>>clocked at 4X that rate.
>>
>>I would probably put two DIMMs in and have a 128-bit path to memory. So every
>>clock in a burst access would return 16 bytes. Remember that this is the high
>>speed clock, not the engine clock. Once data started coming in you could get
>>your 64-bytes in one or two engine clocks. (I would need to work out the
>>additional time since you would be doing random accesses maybe 1 or 2 additional
>>clocks?)
>>
>>It's hard for me to guesstimate this stuff. There could be additional overhead.
>>Plus working with multiple clock domains is always interesting. You would want
>>certain timing relationships to be maintained so you wouldn't need any
>>synchronizers.
>>
>>You might work out a scheme where you would use a small on-chip hash table with
>>single cycle accesses for 64-bytes. This would be fairly small though and could
>>only have thousands of entries. But you could have both internal and external
>>hash I guess?
>>
>>Anyways I would be happy just to recreate something like Deep Thought for
>>starters.
>
>I do not know how to program verilog, so from my viewpoint it is very hard.
>
>But just parallellize gnuchess and put it on hardware chip and then you have
>deep blue if you improve qsearch a bit and add some extensions.
>
>It plays similar style of games like deep blue.
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent


I can take a look at it. It might be difficult to map what it's doing into
hardware though. Which version are you referring to?

Keith



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