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Subject: Re: Attention - Slater Wold

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 11:05:39 04/11/03

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On April 11, 2003 at 13:58:28, Keith Evans wrote:

>On April 11, 2003 at 08:59:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On April 10, 2003 at 13:54:21, Keith Evans wrote:
>>
>>>On April 10, 2003 at 13:38:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 10, 2003 at 12:30:16, Keith Evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 10, 2003 at 08:07:22, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 21:02:18, Keith Evans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some points:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1 - SDRAM (or whatever) is way cheaper than Xilinx parts. If you cared about
>>>>>>>this, you could either offer it as an upgrade option, or let people upgrade
>>>>>>>themselves. (The standard practice would be to require a special DIMM so you
>>>>>>>could charge extra.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DDR ram is not too slow, but the problem is to interface to it in a cheap way.
>>>>>>how are you going to do that? Every interface eats money to license it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Further we do not speak about ASIC here but FPGA. How to interface memory
>>>>>>cheaply to FPGA?
>>>>>
>>>>>Are you worried about IP core licensing fees? It's not difficult to build a
>>>>>memory controller. You can even download some app notes from the Xilinx webpage,
>>>>>but be prepared to fix bugs if you use those.
>>>>>
>>>>>We built a digital data recorder (40 mbit/s stream) using a Xilinx SDRAM app
>>>>>note as a basis and it worked out fine in an older Virtex part.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've found that for simple interfaces it's usually easier to do it yourself than
>>>>>to license IP cores. I did a lot of work with video RAM early in my career
>>>>>(which wass just old async DRAM + shift register), so I know how to read memory
>>>>>datasheets.
>>>>
>>>>needed here is something that gets memory at 6 million times a second and like
>>>>32 bytes of it at least.
>>>>
>>>>Further you need to lookup based upon some value that is in the hardware.
>>>>
>>>>latency may only be 1 processor clocks (from the fpga) or so to keep it real
>>>>interesting. and in case of entire search in fpga like 10 processor clocks at
>>>>most.
>>>>
>>>>then at 6 million nps you fill of course that memory quick. So it has to be at
>>>>least 128MB memory or so.
>>>>
>>>>For what price can you add that to the package?
>>>>
>>>>price matters. only price matters, remember. these guys do not write such stuff
>>>>only for their pleasure.
>>>>
>>>>>Keith
>>>
>>>I might just use ordinary SDRAM and clock it at a multiple of the engine clock.
>>>Let's guess that the engine will be running at 25 MHz max. So old SDRAM could be
>>>clocked at 4X that rate.
>>>
>>>I would probably put two DIMMs in and have a 128-bit path to memory. So every
>>>clock in a burst access would return 16 bytes. Remember that this is the high
>>>speed clock, not the engine clock. Once data started coming in you could get
>>>your 64-bytes in one or two engine clocks. (I would need to work out the
>>>additional time since you would be doing random accesses maybe 1 or 2 additional
>>>clocks?)
>>>
>>>It's hard for me to guesstimate this stuff. There could be additional overhead.
>>>Plus working with multiple clock domains is always interesting. You would want
>>>certain timing relationships to be maintained so you wouldn't need any
>>>synchronizers.
>>>
>>>You might work out a scheme where you would use a small on-chip hash table with
>>>single cycle accesses for 64-bytes. This would be fairly small though and could
>>>only have thousands of entries. But you could have both internal and external
>>>hash I guess?
>>>
>>>Anyways I would be happy just to recreate something like Deep Thought for
>>>starters.
>>
>>I do not know how to program verilog, so from my viewpoint it is very hard.
>>
>>But just parallellize gnuchess and put it on hardware chip and then you have
>>deep blue if you improve qsearch a bit and add some extensions.
>>
>>It plays similar style of games like deep blue.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Vincent
>
>
>I can take a look at it. It might be difficult to map what it's doing into
>hardware though. Which version are you referring to?
>
>Keith

gnuchess 4.00

don't get the raped 5.0 versions.



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