Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 11:36:56 02/15/04
Go up one level in this thread
On February 15, 2004 at 13:41:42, Uri Blass wrote: >On February 15, 2004 at 13:29:16, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On February 15, 2004 at 13:24:54, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>I understood from the winboard forum that Bob considers DanChess as a crafty >>>clone and the question is what is the definition of a clone. >>> >>>I remember from slater's post in this forum that if most of the code is >>>different you cannot win in court by complaining that it is a clone. >>> >>>I understood from Dann's post that only 30% of the code of DanChess is >>>similiar(that does not mean the same as Crafty). >>> >>>Dann Corbit posted in the winboard forum the SEE function of Danchess that is >>>similiar to Crafty. >>>I wonder if it is really the main reason that Bob considers Danchess as a clone >>>or only one of the reasons. >> >>There are more reasons that that one routine. Several routines are similar. He >>also used some ideas from eval that are found only in crafty. For instance, he >>had a stonewall detection. The only other program I ever saw with stonewall >>detection was crafty. >> >>There is no standard for: >>"This is a clone" >>or >>"This is not a clone" > >I believe that there are some standards. > >Suppose that a strong program with the same similiarity to Crafty becomes >commercial and the author does not hide the similiarity and even share the >similiar code that it has to crafty. > >I believe based on your descreption that if Hyatt go to court and sue the >programmer then it is clear that the court is going to decide against him. > >> >>It is clear to me that if you use ideas from someone else and they challenge you >>as to cloning, then you may have a big problem to sort it out. > >I use alphabeta >I use null move > >What other people can do against me? This is called a "strawman" argument. Nobody is claiming that or arguing from that perspective. The point here is _source code_. Do you think it ok to borrow a chapter from a book, change the main character's name, and sell it as your own? Copyright law does _not_ say it is ok. Nor is it ok to take thousands of lines of code from Crafty, change a few variable names, and then call it a new program. I think it is great if someone looks at the source, reads the comments, gets some ideas they like and implement them. Much of the _original_ Crafty design came right from the "Chess Skill in Man and Machine" book chapter on chess 4.0. But I copied _no_ source since none was given. Ideas are ok to copy. But _not_ thousands of lines of source. That is the point here, it keeps getting lost in all the minutia... > > > > Therefore, if >>someone has an idea you want to use, I think the only wise course is to send an >>email and ask if you can use the idea. > >I think that it is absurd. I think both of you are absurd here, because you are arguing a point of view that nobody holds. If you can't see the difference between copying an idea and copying an actual source program, perhaps there is nothing more to say? > >Do I need to ask people if I am allowed to use null move pruning? >What in case that I think independtly about an idea that other people use in >their soutce code and I did not read the source code? > > >Uri
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