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Subject: Re: Qsearch Checks

Author: Bas Hamstra

Date: 15:30:30 09/05/04

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On September 05, 2004 at 17:02:49, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 05, 2004 at 16:37:32, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2004 at 15:58:39, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2004 at 14:56:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2004 at 14:30:01, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>My program has this in relation to checks, all conditionally compilable:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  1) all checks-evasions in quiescence, unlimited occurrences
>>>>>>  2) all checks-evasions in main search, unlimited occurrences
>>>>>>  3) all checking-moves in quiescence, at the first ply of quiescence
>>>>>>
>>>>>>These are the three extensions. Only #1 and #2 have proved useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>Impossible. When I did 3) it solved wac141 within one second, using a mate
>>>>>extension of a full ply. It takes 30.000 nodes and 6 plies to anounce M6.
>>>>
>>>>With mate extension of a full ply your search will explode because
>>>>there are positions when there are a lot of checks and every reply to check is
>>>>a mate threat.
>>>
>>>Not in my search. But I have taken actions to prevent "stapling" of useless
>>>matethreats. I have done a full ply mate-extend in Tao 5.4 without problems.
>>>
>>>>6 plies to see the mate and only 30000 nodes.
>>>>It seems to me hard to believe it espacially when I expect your search with
>>>>full ply extension for mate to explode.
>>>
>>>See above for the explosion. I am not saying a full ply mate-ext is best, but I
>>>have used it for years and it worked fine. This is probably also a matter of
>>>what your qsearch can do. Mine can solve simple multi-move mates.
>>>
>>>>Of course checks in the qsearch helps but I still need 8 plies without mate
>>>>extensions only to find the move without mate score(it is after I decided to
>>>>reduce my evaluation based pruning).
>>>
>>>Yes, I checked and have the same result without mate-ext.
>>>
>>>>I will check with enabling mate extensions only in the first 11 plies(no need
>>>>to extend after 11 plies to find mate in 6) and check results again.
>>>>
>>>>>Without it it has a hard time and it takes very long. The point is: if your
>>>>>qsearch cannot find a simple mate in one (a capture only qsearch wont) chances
>>>>>are you will find this mate a full 3 plies later than necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you implemented 3) your program should mate-extend like crazy here...
>>>>>
>>>>>Bas.
>>>>
>>>>If he implements 3 then his program will crash because it will never get to the
>>>>second ply of the qsearch because his qsearch call the main search and not the
>>>>qsearch.
>>>
>>>You are right here. When you do checks on the first q-ply and call the mean
>>>search for check-evasions, you will have unlimited checking sequences and that's
>>>bad.
>>>
>>>Bas.
>>
>>Repetition detection would take care of that.
>>
>>My search terminates and never goes anywhere near the 99 maximum ply
>>setting. Usually at 8, 9, 10, 11 ply it is no more than 4x the nominal
>>main search depth, e.g. 32, 36, 40, 41 -- I don't limit quiescence to
>>that, it just often turns out that way.
>>
>>No unlimited checking sequences noted due to repetition detection and
>>draw return in both mainsearch and quiescence.
>>
>>On the other hand, I am anxious to try a quiescence that does not
>>handoff to main search to get out of check in quiescence. I was hoping
>>to do that this afternoon.
>>
>>Stuart
>
>I guess that you did not search the right positions or did not search deep
>enough to get the 99 plies
>
>there are positions when there can be easily more than 99 plies of checks with
>no repetition.
>
>Uri


I have the same experience.

Bas.



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