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Subject: Re: Qsearch Checks

Author: Stuart Cracraft

Date: 16:14:30 09/05/04

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On September 05, 2004 at 18:30:30, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On September 05, 2004 at 17:02:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 05, 2004 at 16:37:32, Stuart Cracraft wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2004 at 15:58:39, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 05, 2004 at 14:56:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 05, 2004 at 14:30:01, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>My program has this in relation to checks, all conditionally compilable:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  1) all checks-evasions in quiescence, unlimited occurrences
>>>>>>>  2) all checks-evasions in main search, unlimited occurrences
>>>>>>>  3) all checking-moves in quiescence, at the first ply of quiescence
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>These are the three extensions. Only #1 and #2 have proved useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Impossible. When I did 3) it solved wac141 within one second, using a mate
>>>>>>extension of a full ply. It takes 30.000 nodes and 6 plies to anounce M6.
>>>>>
>>>>>With mate extension of a full ply your search will explode because
>>>>>there are positions when there are a lot of checks and every reply to check is
>>>>>a mate threat.
>>>>
>>>>Not in my search. But I have taken actions to prevent "stapling" of useless
>>>>matethreats. I have done a full ply mate-extend in Tao 5.4 without problems.
>>>>
>>>>>6 plies to see the mate and only 30000 nodes.
>>>>>It seems to me hard to believe it espacially when I expect your search with
>>>>>full ply extension for mate to explode.
>>>>
>>>>See above for the explosion. I am not saying a full ply mate-ext is best, but I
>>>>have used it for years and it worked fine. This is probably also a matter of
>>>>what your qsearch can do. Mine can solve simple multi-move mates.
>>>>
>>>>>Of course checks in the qsearch helps but I still need 8 plies without mate
>>>>>extensions only to find the move without mate score(it is after I decided to
>>>>>reduce my evaluation based pruning).
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I checked and have the same result without mate-ext.
>>>>
>>>>>I will check with enabling mate extensions only in the first 11 plies(no need
>>>>>to extend after 11 plies to find mate in 6) and check results again.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Without it it has a hard time and it takes very long. The point is: if your
>>>>>>qsearch cannot find a simple mate in one (a capture only qsearch wont) chances
>>>>>>are you will find this mate a full 3 plies later than necessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you implemented 3) your program should mate-extend like crazy here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bas.
>>>>>
>>>>>If he implements 3 then his program will crash because it will never get to the
>>>>>second ply of the qsearch because his qsearch call the main search and not the
>>>>>qsearch.
>>>>
>>>>You are right here. When you do checks on the first q-ply and call the mean
>>>>search for check-evasions, you will have unlimited checking sequences and that's
>>>>bad.
>>>>
>>>>Bas.
>>>
>>>Repetition detection would take care of that.
>>>
>>>My search terminates and never goes anywhere near the 99 maximum ply
>>>setting. Usually at 8, 9, 10, 11 ply it is no more than 4x the nominal
>>>main search depth, e.g. 32, 36, 40, 41 -- I don't limit quiescence to
>>>that, it just often turns out that way.
>>>
>>>No unlimited checking sequences noted due to repetition detection and
>>>draw return in both mainsearch and quiescence.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, I am anxious to try a quiescence that does not
>>>handoff to main search to get out of check in quiescence. I was hoping
>>>to do that this afternoon.
>>>
>>>Stuart
>>
>>I guess that you did not search the right positions or did not search deep
>>enough to get the 99 plies
>>
>>there are positions when there can be easily more than 99 plies of checks with
>>no repetition.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>I have the same experience.
>
>Bas.

Most programs I've heard of have a maximum ply setting beyond which the
search can't go.

How about you Uri and you Bas?

Stuart




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