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Subject: Re: Result of my experiments, limited to Available books

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 01:25:13 02/21/05

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On February 20, 2005 at 13:20:44, Sandro Necchi wrote:

>On February 20, 2005 at 13:02:51, Claude Le Page wrote:
>
>>Hi Sandro!
>
>Hi Claude,
>
>>For what we are studying , matches or tournaments , I don't see the difference :
>
>I do.
>
>>There are GAMES , and that is all!
>
>So to you tournament and matches for humans are only games?
>So when you play against an opponent you choose random?
>
>>My Thesis is the following : Commercial opening books are supposed to be tuned
>>to the engine with which they are supplied
>
>Some of them yes, others no.
>Of course how they are tuned can be very different from maker to maker. I mean
>if a make a book for program a and I chose a specific line does not mean it is
>tuned...only that I have make a selection...:-)
>
>>Yet they do no better than books of databases , not specially made for an engine
>>or another ;
>
>This is your opinion. Not mine.
>
>>Then there are only 2 possible explanations:
>>1) By chance the books of MegaCor3 and FritzPowerbook happen to be as good
>>opening books as specially tuned ones both for Hiarcs9 and for DeepJunior8
>
>I do not agree.
>
>>If it's true , then you can use these 2 books as opening book for a new engine
>>that you are developping ; this is amazing , but interesting and useful
>
>My tests show otherwise.
>
>>2)The opening books of Fritz , Junior ,Shredder and so on are obtained by the
>>same way :they choose a database
>
>No, we did not choose a database for Shredder, but made the selection manually.
>
>, and give it's book as opening book for an
>>engine : in this way , I have been said that the opening book of ChessTiger15 is
>>very similar to the book of FritzPowerbook , and yet it is  not worse than
>>others
>>There is a point to check:MegaCor3 and Powerbook are "selections" of games ;
>>there is another sort of databases : those obtained in an "automatic" way :
>
>Yes, it is true for ChessTiger and FritzPowerbook, but not for Fritz 8 and Deep
>Fritz 8 as well as for Junior 8 and maybe Junior 9 too...I do not know as they
>are made by other people...
>
>>I have 2 :
>>The games of Chess Informant from N°01 to N°87
>>The most recent samples of TWIC (only 37000 games)
>>First is perhaps biased : correspondents send the games they think noticeable ,
>>so there are more games won by White
>>Second would be more neutral as it contains "integral" of a tornament if it's
>>strong enough (Linares ,Corus aso ), but it's probably less creative than
>>Harding's
>>I am going to test this new sort of books
>
>Look I have all the Chess Informator from 1 to 91 and I did checked many of the
>games listed there.
>The problem with these games is that often the analysis are not correct and
>those lines can be improved.
>Since these games are well known it happens frequently that you play a "winning"
>line taken from those and you get killed by improvements...this is why to get
>games from a database without checking/studying them is time wasted...if it was
>so easy to make a book by getting games from played ones, then I would have
>started to develop a chess program myself rather than working on the opening
>book full (free) time...
>
>>As you can see ,I make no judgement whatsoever
>
>Me too...
>
>>Friendly Yours
>>Claude Le Page
>
>Sandro

Sandro -

can you describe an experimental setup which will demonstrate the value of a
good book?

I have Shredders 7, 8 & 9 (UCI), Junior 8 & 9, and all the Fritzes going back to
5.32.

Vas



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