Author: Vasik Rajlich
Date: 01:25:13 02/21/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 20, 2005 at 13:20:44, Sandro Necchi wrote: >On February 20, 2005 at 13:02:51, Claude Le Page wrote: > >>Hi Sandro! > >Hi Claude, > >>For what we are studying , matches or tournaments , I don't see the difference : > >I do. > >>There are GAMES , and that is all! > >So to you tournament and matches for humans are only games? >So when you play against an opponent you choose random? > >>My Thesis is the following : Commercial opening books are supposed to be tuned >>to the engine with which they are supplied > >Some of them yes, others no. >Of course how they are tuned can be very different from maker to maker. I mean >if a make a book for program a and I chose a specific line does not mean it is >tuned...only that I have make a selection...:-) > >>Yet they do no better than books of databases , not specially made for an engine >>or another ; > >This is your opinion. Not mine. > >>Then there are only 2 possible explanations: >>1) By chance the books of MegaCor3 and FritzPowerbook happen to be as good >>opening books as specially tuned ones both for Hiarcs9 and for DeepJunior8 > >I do not agree. > >>If it's true , then you can use these 2 books as opening book for a new engine >>that you are developping ; this is amazing , but interesting and useful > >My tests show otherwise. > >>2)The opening books of Fritz , Junior ,Shredder and so on are obtained by the >>same way :they choose a database > >No, we did not choose a database for Shredder, but made the selection manually. > >, and give it's book as opening book for an >>engine : in this way , I have been said that the opening book of ChessTiger15 is >>very similar to the book of FritzPowerbook , and yet it is not worse than >>others >>There is a point to check:MegaCor3 and Powerbook are "selections" of games ; >>there is another sort of databases : those obtained in an "automatic" way : > >Yes, it is true for ChessTiger and FritzPowerbook, but not for Fritz 8 and Deep >Fritz 8 as well as for Junior 8 and maybe Junior 9 too...I do not know as they >are made by other people... > >>I have 2 : >>The games of Chess Informant from N°01 to N°87 >>The most recent samples of TWIC (only 37000 games) >>First is perhaps biased : correspondents send the games they think noticeable , >>so there are more games won by White >>Second would be more neutral as it contains "integral" of a tornament if it's >>strong enough (Linares ,Corus aso ), but it's probably less creative than >>Harding's >>I am going to test this new sort of books > >Look I have all the Chess Informator from 1 to 91 and I did checked many of the >games listed there. >The problem with these games is that often the analysis are not correct and >those lines can be improved. >Since these games are well known it happens frequently that you play a "winning" >line taken from those and you get killed by improvements...this is why to get >games from a database without checking/studying them is time wasted...if it was >so easy to make a book by getting games from played ones, then I would have >started to develop a chess program myself rather than working on the opening >book full (free) time... > >>As you can see ,I make no judgement whatsoever > >Me too... > >>Friendly Yours >>Claude Le Page > >Sandro Sandro - can you describe an experimental setup which will demonstrate the value of a good book? I have Shredders 7, 8 & 9 (UCI), Junior 8 & 9, and all the Fritzes going back to 5.32. Vas
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