Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 09:14:01 02/20/06
Go up one level in this thread
On February 19, 2006 at 05:00:48, Sandro Necchi wrote: I feel you 'hit the nail on the head' when predicting that in 2006 we will see huge progresses in engines. A result is that certain engines jump harder than others. So real strong engines of the past will fade and new engines will jump bigtime. Fruit's public source code has already proven that. It has boosted in a direct manner especially engines like Spike, Toga, not to mention Rybka. Yet it's public code so we can see where the jump came from and learn from that for our own engines. What is not sure is which engines make the biggest jump in terms of elo strength. In openingsbooks things are still clear, simply because there is only 1 professional near to fulltime openingsbook creator on this planet (Erdogan Gunes) who in world champs 2006 gets the support of a 1056 processor Altix (from which zappa effectively will search on a cpu or 450-500 i guess as largest partition is 512p). Yet he this time doesn't get help of a titled player for his openings book. On the other hand there is Noomen now who can make a book for Rybka in world champs 2006 Turino, which will for sure be a book full of fireballs. If you stumble into one of such fireballs then you're completely dead. I personally doubt however Fritz can make a big jump in 2006 based upon only engine strength. The strong point from Fruit was basically already a strong point of Fritz and as Frans isn't joining any tournaments anymore with Fritz in future, he'll probably have problems finding information how to improve his program, whereas at world champs 2005 there were very interesting talks in this respect where programmers could learn from other programmers. Online commercial programmers simply aren't talking. In short other programmers such as me are learning a lot more now than Frans can, despite his amazing understanding of how IDA pro works (to debug Quest of course). It's true that on paper Fruit could progress really a lot, yet Fabien will face a few practical problems which were similar to when i was making a go playing program. I stopped its development for the same reason and other French programmers also have that same problem. So Fabien still has to prove itself there. Making something simplistic that's real well tuned and is kicking unprecedented butt is a true historic achievement. Yet Fruit progress could only come from points now where Tiger and Hiarcs also have problems progressing. So this is an open challenge where end of 2006 we will be able to give an answer too. World champs 2006 will really come too soon in that respect. I also look forward to the new DeepSjeng. I remember how in a previous lifetime its unique playstyle was real interesting. It seems that multiprocessing is completely fixed now and superior working in comparision to older versions. It is here where engines like Rybka, Fruit, still have to prove itself. Yet you really are forgetting to mention a bunch of amateur engines. Starting with Glaurung, The Baron, Spike and so on. Glaurung is nearly SMP now. Just in time for world champs. The Baron already was and latest revisions of The Baron where Diep of course tests a lot against, seem really hundreds of rating points improved. From shredder10 i am sure it will be improved a lot. He has proven that in the past and he'll do that in the future once again. The real interesting thing of 2006 is which new engines will be there besides Rybka that can really deliver a hard punch to opponents. Just improving 100 points simply isn't enough for that. >On February 18, 2006 at 17:20:59, stuart taylor wrote: > >>On February 17, 2006 at 12:55:10, Sandro Necchi wrote: >> >>>On February 17, 2006 at 12:03:28, Marc Lacrosse wrote: >>> >>>>On February 17, 2006 at 11:44:05, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 17, 2006 at 04:55:08, John Jack wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Shredder 10 is due two be released in April. Will it be stronger than Rybka??? >>>>>> >>>>>>J.J >>>>> >>>>>Shredder 10 is planned to be released in March and not April. >>>>> >>>>>For the second question it is not easy to answer as Rybka commercial version is >>>>>not available yet and Shredder 10 is not ready yet (under development still), so >>>>>you will have to wait March to find out. >>>>> >>>>>Sandro >>>> >>>>Thanks for the information Sandro ! >>> >>>you welcome. >>> >>>> >>>>By the way, will there still be two different versions (UCI and CB) ? >>> >>>Nothing has been decited yet as nothing has been shown to CB yet (that I know >>>of) >>> >>>We are still testing new better versions all the time. >>> >>>However my personal opinion is yes because CB will make it possible...I let you >>>guess why... >> >>So it's coming on well! Well, so is Rybka, I guess. It's going going to be >>tough. All top programmers have to again become like very young in energy and >>determination. >>OK, so Shredder MIGHT do it, Rybka we know. Hiarcs and Fritz are what they are, >>Junior, silent, Tiger, off the scene, Fruit, looks like it did what it could, >>Chess master, never were too ambitious, others retired, I don't know? > >First of all I am not a magician, so the following expectations are based on my >knowledge of the programs and the way they are made as well as opinion on the >programmers ability and williness to work on their engines... > >Yes, Shredder has been improved a lot, but we are still working on it, so the >final version is not available yet and one cannot tell how strong it will be... > >Rybka we all know...expectations are easy for this program. > >Hiarcs is quite good and surely has more room for improvements, but his >programmer, which is one of the best, is working part time so we cannot expect >another big jump in the near future. I could be wrong of course if he can spend >a lot of time improving the engine as he has the potential... > >Fritz can be improved further and I am expecting another 50-70 Elo gain. Why so >much if normally it did not improved that much? Because (and this is for all >programs) the info you can get from a much stronger program let you speed up the >improvements being able to see more clearly the weaknesses of your program. > >Junior has a lot of potential too, but it seems the programmer is more busy with >other stuff...it can improve a lot if he can/wants to, but I doubt it would be >more than 100 Elo points... > >Tiger has potential too, but it looks like his programmer is taking a break, so >if this is true will not improve in the near future. I would expect a gain of >50-70 Elo if he does work on the engine...he shall work on the SMP version as >well... > >Fruit has more potential as it is still a young program and to expect 80-100 Elo >improvements is not being too optimistic...his programmer is quite good. > >Zappa will improve further as the version we saw was weaker than the previous >one. It is already a very strong program...maybe we will see a commercial >version too, but not in the near future it seems... > >Chess Master is already strong and can be improved further, but it seems that >his programmer is not interested on working on the engine as well as supply it >with a professional opening book...the programmer is quite good and may change >his mind...nobody seems to know... > >Gandalf is strong and seems to have a lot of room for improvements...his >programmer is quite experienced and seems motivated to get to the top...this is >one of the program I would expect the highest improvements... > >There are other programs which are quite strong and that can improve further...I >would not forget some programmers that are not active now, but were before and >that may will come back... > >2006 looks quite fun for computer chess funs! > > >Sandro >> >>S.Taylor >>> >>>> >>>>Marc >>> >>>Sandro
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